Jefferson for america
Ben Everidge for Thomas
A fictional interview with the 3rd president of the United States …
I feel like a character from the play Hamilton making this statement. But welcome back, Mr. Jefferson. You’ve been gone a long, long time!
Thomas Jefferson (TJ): Yes, I know. It’s great to be back. That Lin-Manuel Miranda fellow is talented. I have heard about his play. Seems to me he pretty well nailed it. But he did make me out to be a little more flamboyant than I am. I can assure you I cannot dance like that performer who played me. Dare I ask? What did I miss?
Yeah, that was some great stepping in the play. I loved the character it gave you, even though we all know you as a more serious person. Let’s start there. Do you have any thoughts you would like to share first on Hamilton?
I am sure you know that Alexander and I did not always see eye-to-eye on many things. He wanted a strong central government. I wanted states to have more authority. He preferred institutional government. I served active citizenry. He died young. I lived a full life.
Despite those differences, though, the two of you shared a few traits in common, I understand.
True. We both believed in our young nation's potential and our Constitution's promise. We agreed on the strength that comes from knowledge and the application of intelligence to everyday problem-solving. We both wanted the best for people – I called it life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, you might remember.
Thomas invites you to read:
Hamilton & Jefferson
We remember it well, Mr. President. As you may be aware, we are having a presidential election today. None of us know yet who will win and who will lose, but do you have any thoughts on how we begin to tell the story of America today?
Occupying the White House is indeed a massive responsibility. Not every person who is elected succeeds. I must add that it’s pretty surprising that a woman has not been elected president so far. I have been watching this race from a distance and admit that I am concerned about the end runs I have seen on Madison’s take on the Constitution and Hamilton’s view of the Bill of Rights. I thought the Founding Fathers and I had been clear on intent.
How so, Mr. Jefferson?
Our Constitution provided for direct oversight of the executive branch by both houses of Congress. In my opinion, that oversight has been lacking these past four years, particularly in the Senate, where the party in charge appears to want to give their same-party president too much deference. Also, the media is the enemy of the people stuff. Really? I was always of the opinion that the press was a pain to deal with but necessary for democracy to survive. I once wrote a fellow that the basis of our governments is the people’s opinion; the first object should be to keep that right. And were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them. I think that sentiment is just as accurate today. And don’t get me started on these governments by Executive Orders or ignoring the Rule of Law. All of these congressional transgressions are perplexing to me.
These issues have certainly been front-and-center in the campaign this year between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. You could not have two more different perspectives running for president than you will find in these two. Events these past months have driven a wedge deep into the American fabric of society, splitting us into what appears to be three somewhat camps: Trumpists, progressives, and independents.
I agree with that analysis. That is what makes for a great election when you think about it. The American voter has a distinct choice to make between these two candidates and these multiple philosophies—and, might I add, their party partisans in the Senate and House as well. We did design our government to give you such choices.
It can certainly be exhausting, Mr. Jefferson.
It can be. By the way, we should be less formal. Please call me, Thomas. I am a private citizen these days, you know.
Then, By the way, we should be less formal. Please call me Thomas. You know I am a private citizen these days, you, Thomas.
American democracy was never intended to be easy to practice, Ben. It changes over time. It adapts. It improves. American democracy re-calibrates when necessary. This is the natural cycle of political life, I believe. Relish it. It is a blessing to a nation like the United States of America.
So, Thomas, if you were looking ahead to the 2024 race for the White House, whether or not Donald Trump or Joe Biden are president these next four years, what would you like to see for our citizens?
Putting the personalities of Trump and Biden aside, I would have to tell you that I would prefer to see a time when the U.S. Constitution and our Bill of Rights become more relevant, not less when people of all ages look deeply into the meaning and intent of each provision of these critical documents and discuss loudly if needed how they should apply to everyday life today. For every one of us, not just some of us. We need to understand better and appreciate what these vital documents mean to and for our democracy.
Let’s take the pandemic and discuss it for a moment. Should the federal government play a lead role in vanquishing COVID-19’s threat to America’s health, or should the individual states themselves decide what would work best for them in each of their respective best interests?
While I am a firm proponent of states’ rights, there are times when the federal government should lead. This pandemic you are suffering right now is killing and harming far too many citizens to be left alone with fifty states and four territories to contend with. This virus is not a simple flu. How it will feel most is very unpredictable and far more deadly than the average virus. There needs to be a higher degree of uniformity in mitigating the pandemic across borders. For example, I would like to see rapid, widely available testing with immediate results so that contact tracing can be effective. I want to see more consistency in our response to the virus through the standard-consistent application of restrictions and preventions, social distancing, mandatory mask-wearing in public, and the manufacture of an appropriate supply of personal protection equipment. If you test positive, compulsory two-week quarantining should be implemented, not questioned. These steps are the very least that the federal government should require and explain.
What about states? What role should they play?
States should regulate which businesses are open or closed, at what capacity, and how they can best mitigate the spread of the virus among their patrons. Fifty percent capacity restaurants and twenty-five percent capacity sports stadia would be advisable until the virus spread is significantly lower, along with related hospitalizations and deaths. States can also accumulate data that should be shared with the federal government on what is or is not happening with the virus. This requires transparency, of course, but the government should always be transparent unless it is a matter of national security. Federal and state governments should collaborate to provide financial assistance to those negatively impacted by the virus, assist state and local governments in bridging any funding gaps that are undermining them in the process, and give our first responders as much support as possible.
Speaking of national security, what do you make of Russia’s interference in U.S. elections?
I wouldn’t say I like foreign interference in our elections. It’s hard to believe that a president must declare that viewpoint, but it seems necessary. We did not allow the British to interfere in our elections when America was younger, and it should not be the case today that any president of the United States would permit Russia, North Korea, Iran, China, or any foreign government – friend or foe – to interfere in U.S. elections in any way whatsoever. Period!
Thomas, you took on the Pasha of Libya when you were president and helped launch American preeminence in foreign and defense policy. You also founded West Point and opened the West through the exploration exploits of Lewis and Clark. Are America’s best days behind her?
Not. America is returning to the moon after placing the first footsteps on its surface decades ago. We have traveled the ocean floors and advanced medical and manufacturing knowledge beyond anything others imagined. Exploring Mars is on the books, and the United States is still a young and evolving nation with unlimited potential. I think we can do anything we set our minds to, and it is the president of the United States – Democrat or Republican or Independent – who sets that course. We must do more of that, not less. That will help reunify the nation after this election, I would bet.
If there is a single thing that America can correct in the next presidential administration, what would that be?
Greater ethics in government.
Ethics?
Ethics. Without ethics in government, there is no trust among the citizenry for those who purport to lead this great nation. Without ethics in government, the citizenry will not trust
What kind of ethics?
Uncompromising ethics. We need presidents who always tell the truth, even when it hurts. We need presidents who put public service first and personal interests far down the list of priorities. We want presidents who will release their tax returns and put business interests in a genuinely blind trust. We need presidents who will solve problems decisively and for the benefit of the many as well as the few. We need presidential administrations who recruit and hire the best and the brightest, as they have been called—people who understand the principles of our democracy and want to share those principles worldwide if permitted. The government must be run by professionals, not a tribe of family members or sycophants.
So, is the Emoluments controversy a real problem for us?
We put the Emoluments clause into the Constitution for a reason. The use of property owned by any president by a foreign entity with designs on democracy is not a good thing for America. The Impeachment fiasco earlier this year could have been avoided if personal interests did not trump public interests. Russia did indeed interfere in your 2016 election. We know this from the bipartisan investigation, especially in the Senate. Ukraine’s investigation of a political rival to a president was a disaster. That should have been expected. Why did you expect it?
Thomas invites you to read:
We Can Do Better America
Are these better ethics processes that can better be shared with our citizens?
There is no question in my mind that it can be. Communicating needs and solutions to our citizens is a top responsibility of any president. Convincing people what they should do, why it should be done, and how it is in their best interest should be a no-brainer. Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt did an excellent job communicating and persuading when it became their turn. It can be done if the will is there. And it can be done without denigrating those who have an opposing viewpoint. You know, elections in my day were nasty affairs then, too. Still, with news being so instantaneous today, there is no need to muddy the political waters with name-calling, unsubstantiated allegations of corruption, wrongdoing, or anything.
You were known for believing in self-sustainability and pay-as-you-go government—in the power of individualism. What do you think about modern budgeting in America?
I am horrified. I looked at your books, and your debt is massively out of whack. Who has been in charge of this fiasco?
Would you believe the people who were in the room?
Cute. This is not a laughing matter, in my opinion. Government spending is uncontrolled by both political parties, and the considerable debt increase by the Trump Administration is indefensible. Nobody spends like that and is not penalized by the voter. What does the next generation of Americans think about the debt you all are saddling them? They can’t be happy.
Not happy at all, Thomas. We are spending so much of our annual revenue on servicing the debt that this trend in spending is not sustainable. You are right.
Somebody needs to control the spending. More manufacturing and better-paying jobs will raise tax revenue from personal and corporate income taxes. I would begin there. Take care of the people, and the people will take care of the government. Give companies incentives to grow and expand, and they will pay more in taxes, assuming that you are equitably taxing them for their growth. Tax people equitably and fairly, and people will support your initiatives.
Interestingly, the Republicans, for the longest time, were against the tax-and-spend liberals of the Democratic Party but lately don’t seem to worry that revenue and expenses are running at such burdensome deficits.
The American voter needs to hold these public servants to a higher standard of operations. It can be done, but it takes tremendous discipline not to let spending get out of control. The federal government will only be able to handle debt just so far before it impedes its ability to deliver goods and services to Americans. I would watch out for this problem. It is a significant liability for American democracy. On the other hand, both sides of the political aisle must make difficult decisions. Take the failed stimulus talks between the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives. Many people are hurting from the economic stranglehold of the virus, but no solution was found or advanced when the American economy clearly demanded support. True, we raise the debt by approving more expensive aid to people and organizations. On the other hand, a humming economy will pay more considerable benefits down the road.
Socialism has risen because capitalism has been uniquely challenged in recent years, Thomas.
That’s no excuse. Socialism will not gain a foothold in the American public if American capitalization remembers to share the wealth among shareholders and stakeholders alike. It is up to all of you to control the ebbs and flows of fairness in America. Leave behind any one group, and democracy becomes flawed. We have no rational reason to permit this to occur today. It would be best if you stopped the downhill slide now. Capitalism cannot run unchecked. It cannot be allowed to be unfair or discriminating in the name of simply making money. Otherwise, capitalism will lose its battle against socialism when you least expect it to happen. We have seen that throughout history.
And immigration?
Look, we are a nation of immigrants. We all came from somewhere else initially, except for American Indian tribes. They were the originals. We need to remember that. There needs to be a rational path to citizenship for anyone legitimately wishing to come to America. It should not take generations to decide what to do to fix your immigration challenges. And, indeed, for our sakes, don’t strip immigrating families of their children so that you can discourage their travel to our borders. That was inhumane, and we, as a nation, are much better than that. No question.
We do have a lot of challenges facing us.
You do, no doubt about that. People cannot get affordable healthcare, and now the Supreme Court is hearing a case on the 10th of November brought by more than a dozen state attorneys general and the current White House to strip people of their coverage and protections against preexisting medical conditions. What is that all about? Your roads and infrastructure are crumbling before your eyes, and nobody is prioritizing that fix? What is that all about? Climate change? That’s not a hoax, America. That’s a real problem that no one can ignore for much longer.
America has had a lot of protests lately, and I imagine you have seen that through recent news stories.
I have. Remember, I am the one who said a little revolution every generation may be a good thing, even if it involves my record.
I do know of your love for architecture. Monticello and your University of Virginia are beautiful. What do you think, therefore, of protesting Americans tearing down statues of you and other Founding Fathers like George Washington and Benjamin Franklin?
I am good with that. I would rather that our statues not be torn down, but I see what the purpose has been and understand. The protests are valid. We admittedly did not get the whole slavery and discrimination controversy right in my time. We have made things worse on that front. There is more of the story to share, but in the meantime, truthfully, we tried to start to correct these unfortunately commonplace inequities in our era. Everyone could have done a lot more, faster. It should be happening now even though it is centuries late in coming.
Your Monticello Foundation has done excellent work trying to clarify the actual record of your time. Remarkably, they are leading the discussion on what is and what was, and history should better judge the founding times.
Indeed. The Declaration of Independence attempted to start this path with All Men are Created Equal. All men were not treated equally, and we should have made provisions for women to be treated equally. On balance, I hope that history will judge us in the context of what we did right and what we got wrong or ignored. The Amendments to the Constitution have helped correct those inequities in our Constitution and our country. Hopefully, the protests will be less violent and more lasting in the changes coming to America in his decade. Discrimination of any kind against any person is wrong. The sooner we recognize this fact, the sooner we can all get on with prospering as an accountable nation. We must remember and learn from this part of our history as quickly as possible.
So, Thomas, what are you doing next during your visit here?
I am headed over to look at my memorial on the Tidal Basin. I hope nobody tears it down, too. The architecture is gorgeous – you know I love architecture, right?
That we know, Sir. Thank you, Thomas – Mr. President – for your time. You make an impact on us every time you speak.
It's my pleasure. I give my best to America. We’ll be talking. Good luck with that election today. You will be okay!